Wolves in Wyoming

I picked this off of another news group.

Comments??

WW

Below is an open letter posted on several hunting listservs, local letters to the editor and paid advertisements, by a gentlman, regarding the growing decimation of the Gros Ventre elk herd near Jackson, Wyoming, by a federally-reintroduced wolf pack which has trapped this elk herd in the Gros Ventre drainage area. This used to be a large, healthy herd of elk, but now it is in the process of being obliterated by those ecologically-sound wolves. Interesting how nature isn't as humane and considerate as us hunters:

Jackson Hole, WY March 19, 2002

Wyoming Citizens,

My wife and I went snow machining up the Gros Ventre last Friday March 15.Saw 4 wolves run across the road in front of us just east of the Red Rock ranch. Stopped and talked to two volunteers from federal fish and wildlife service, one from Maine and one from North Dakota. Noticed elk tracks everywhere. ( very unusual) Asked how many wolves were here? 'About 13' How many elk are they killing? 'Three or more a night' (not counting pregnant cows aborting because of being run and stressed.) Continued up the road,appalled by the amount of running elk tracks everywhere. (They have been conditioned for years to stay on the feed grounds) Stopped at the Goose Wing feed grounds. Pile of about 20 to 30 dead elk (cows and calves) by the road pulled there by elk feeders. Some had small amounts of flesh eaten (10 to 15) pounds from hind quarters, left to die..Others caught by nose. Nose, lips and tongue eaten off and left to die.Wounded and stressed elk laying away from herd, unable to get up. (4 or more)

Threw up

Yes, I'll comment,,,,,, we're seeing the same thing over here in Idaho [Sun Valley area], the decimation of the elk herds.

It's very discouraging since we have spent years and years, and countless $ to improve the habitat to bring the elk herds back up. All for naught. The wolves are going through the elk herds like kids in a candy store.

About the only 'positive' in all this is that the wolves are also killing all our 'hot tub' environmentalist' llamas. They weep, complain and lose sleep over that, and in the same breath will tell you that 'wolves have rights too'. Such hypocrisy!

Situation won't change until a child or one of our 'Birkenstock' environmentals is killed by wolves. And it'll happen, just a matter of time. Wolves aren't warm, fuzzy and harmless.

Is there anything we can do as concerned Sportsman (from a different state) do in cases like this?

Thomas Washington State

I picked this off of another news group.

Comments??

WW

Below is an open letter posted on several hunting listservs, local letters to the editor and paid advertisements, by a gentlman, regarding the growing decimation of the Gros Ventre elk herd near Jackson, Wyoming, by a federally-reintroduced wolf pack which has trapped this elk herd in the Gros Ventre drainage area. This used to be a large, healthy herd of elk, but now it is in the process of being obliterated by those ecologically-sound wolves. Interesting how nature isn't as humane and considerate as us hunters:

Jackson Hole, WY March 19, 2002

Wyoming Citizens,

My wife and I went snow machining up the Gros Ventre last Friday March 15.Saw 4 wolves run across the road in front of us just east of the Red Rock ranch. Stopped and talked to two volunteers from federal fish and wildlife service, one from Maine and one from North Dakota. Noticed elk tracks everywhere. ( very unusual) Asked how many wolves were here? 'About 13' How many elk are they killing? 'Three or more a night' (not counting pregnant cows aborting because of being run and stressed.) Continued up the road,appalled by the amount of running elk tracks everywhere. (They have been conditioned for years to stay on the feed grounds) Stopped at the Goose Wing feed grounds. Pile of about 20 to 30 dead elk (cows and calves) by the road pulled there by elk feeders. Some had small amounts of flesh eaten (10 to 15) pounds from hind quarters, left to die..Others caught by nose. Nose, lips and tongue eaten off and left to die.Wounded and stressed elk laying away from herd, unable to get up. (4 or more)

Threw up

You are banned from this newsgroup. Openly advocating federal law is not in the perview of legitmate posts on this newsgroups.

I'm just guessing, but to me it sounds like the story was written by someone with an agenda against the re-interduction of Wolves. I'm hoping they will be bringing both Wolves and Elk back to NY some day, the Moose are already here.

Ok, hands up everyone here who actually LIVES with wolves and big game animals in their 'back yard'?

Well, that's ME anyway. I have a pack of Quebec timberwolves and whitetail deer on my property.

The problem I see here is in the management. They brought in elk. Elk are pretty, they make cool noises, people pay to see them. That's good. Low impact, very Disney-esque Mother Nature. What you might call 'Plug and Play'.

And the origional article has pretty much admitted that they've been tamed. They stay near the food provided by the feeders, they seem to have forgotten how to work as a defensive herd, they're cows with antlers.

Add to that the morons feeding the elk. The article says the wolf-killed elk carcasses are stacked near the road, dragged there by the feeder-guys; AWAY from the wolves, is what I'm getting at. Well, that isn't the smartest thing they've done all day. If you go to a buffet restaurant, one of those self-serve deals, and you aren't finished your plate, but just get up to go to the washroom, or to make a phone call or something, and come back to find your plate is gone, what are you going to do? You're gonna just go back up to the buffet, aren't you?

Well, to me, that sounds like that's exactly what the wolves are doing. They can't eat leftovers, so they're going 'back to the store'.

Your average Canadian timberwolf will happily return to a kill, and keep returning to the kill until nothing is left but a few gnawed bones and some fur. It's a heluva lot easier to eat cold leftovers than it is to run for a few hours and risk fatal injuries (and in the REAL wild, amost any real injury is fatal to a predator) in a takedown.

As for the wolves 'leaving them to die', well, you know, you guys seem to have forgotten what REAL wildlife is like. Nature doesn't DO humane, Nature doesn't DO mercy. Nature DOES survival of the fittest, Nature DOES Natural Selection.

And stupid elk and stupid human handlers should remember that before they invite one of Nature's best predators to dinner.

Not all Canadians are polite .

But Chris, he *wasn't* advocating federal law in the purview of this fiefdom, he was advocating vigilante law ...

Somebody needs a valium.

I don't understand all the wolf vitriol. Idaho's elk populations are near all time highs. That's not to say that the herds are healthy, because the bull-cow ratios are lower than ideal, but that's not due to wolves. The idea that wolves pose a greater threat to elk than the ongoing loss of winter range is laughable. I won't dispute that it's possible to have too many wolves, but we're not there yet and probably won't get there. The new wolf control policy is pretty liberal (love that word) in allowing ranchers to shoot wolves on their property without proving an immediate threat to stock.

As far as wolves being dangerous to humans, there's just no evidence to support it. Read Russell Annabel, an alaska sourdough/trapper/guide who hated wolves and killed as many as he could. He stated numerous times that he never heard of anyone being attacked. Our kids are in more danger from the neighbors' pets than they are from wolves. I know that doesn't mean they're not scary. I have not slept well when they've howled close to my camp.

cheers, scott

Yes. It was a typo - I left out the word 'violating'; to be inserted between 'advocating' and 'federal'.

Wasn't the point of the original post, how a wolf pack is decimating a herd of elk?

Well, if it is truly happening I would like to know about it. Second, there are many elk yards now out west because of encroaching development. Fish & wildlife departments have established areas where they help the elk winter with feeding due to the loss of historical winter elk range. This does create an artificial environment, and, possibly one in which the wolves could potentially behave badly.

Shouldn't we be asking: Is this really happening? If so, how can the proper balance between predator and prey be re-established?

I'd like to hear from other people from this group who live in the area to verify the story or show it to be false, and then make judgements.

Yes, that is the proper question. The problem is that the anti-wolf factions seem to think that a proper balance is 0% wolf. Even 1 wolf killed elk is too many (not sure what they think the wolves should eat).