When is a hunt a canned hunt?

This will certainly stir some feelings with many of you but I would like to hang this out to the group for discussion. I've been hunting for a fair part of my live and hunted on numerous hunting reserves and game ranches. I used the best (to my humble standards) rifle, scope and ammo combination and took some good trophies.

The question is 'when is a hunt a canned hunt'. Is it when you drive around on a 4x4 and see a great animal, stop, walked 50yards and shoot it. (I never shoot from a vehicle but does 50yards make it fair?)

Is it game that is kept on a ranch that has been fenced of with 15ft fences? (Then 95% of game ranches offers canned hunts)

Is it drugged dangerous game that is been set up for a specific client to shoot? (no commentary)

Is it game that is hunted over bait? (Then almost all leopard and bow hunts is canned hunts)

Is it game that is been hunted with spotlights at night? (some species are nocturnal)

I ask this question because the first thing some clients (specially USA and German clients) tells you is 'they don't hunt canned animals' and I respect this very mush. But when is a hunt a canned hunt?

Please, don't let as flame each other for there opinion as it is only an opinion spoken. Something can be unacceptable for one and not for the other. My grandfather refused to hunt on Sundays but for me it is just a another working day. Lets hear what you got to say.

Regards, Philip

<< John, That definition might include using a rock instead of our bare hands, playing the wind, fastidious odor control, wearing camouflage, hunting over bait, using a compound instead of a traditional bow, using a rifle instead of a bow, using a scope instead of iron sights, hunting with a guide or tracker, or hunting inside a high fence operation that restricts your impala to 17,000 acres of thorn bush range. I regard none of these as elements of a canned or unethical hunt (though some people do, and I choose to bowhunt with traditional tackle). Be well. Good hunting! Michael

How does using a scope, if legal, alter the odds from using a bow? You still have the same chance of coming across an animal. Using scents and the wind is a natural tactic, do not some dogs roll around in stinking messes to disguise their scents?

In your examples you are either confusing hunting and killing or artificial and natural methods. Baiting I would say is artificial if you put it out yourself, otherwise how is it different than a lion waiting by a waterhole? How is having a guide or tracker different that an older wolf teaching a cub how to hunt? Of course this may answer my question about my German hunt. It was just that the guide knew where to go and we went quickly.

In your 17,000 acres does the impala have nearly the same chance to elude you as it would in the open? If yes it would not be a canned hunt. If you use the fence to find and corner the animal then you would have a canned hunt.

It boils down to if you are using a tatic/device to increase your chances of finding an animal that a natural predeator of that animal would not use. Then you may have a canned hunt.

John Fusek

On or about 5/17/00 5:06 PM, Philip Breytenbach's chinchilla escaped it's cage, climbed the computer table, ran across the keyboard and accidently hit

DEFINE BAIT, BUT YES, CANNED HUNT. YES, CANNED HUNT, EXCEPT FERAL ANIMALS When you actually 'hunt' for the animal, hence the name... Hunting.

Paul,

I agree that there should be no difference between using a forrester/hunter in Germany and a guide here. But one over there is a full time, year round professional. While most here are doing a Seasonal job. Also in my limited experience a guide here does a lot more than find game, camp, horeses general housekeeping etc. While in Germany a hunter just guides and does it with the famous teutonic efficiency.

John Fusek

Your modification does deal more with the killing of the animal than finding it. To me the joy of the hunt is the search and the finding. But I can accept your definition.

That some is a very small number of hunters. I would only attempt a 250 yard shot from a steady rest with a rifle I knew well. I know a hunter, ex green beret officer, who never uses scopes and has dropped a running deer at 150 paces offhand. However he has a large farm, reloads and has relatives in the ammo business. He shoots more rounds in a month than I do in a year. Actually he says he shoots over 100,000 a year. A lot compared to my 5,000 - 8,000. Great eyes but you have to shout to talk to him. Go to a sighting-in day and tell me a scope makes it easy for the majority of hunters.

A quibble point. The basic tactics is the same and has been for eons. Covering up ones scent or not allowing the scent to reach the targeted game. The charcol suit might be a bit much.

Well that is definitely a canned hunt. We can agree on that.

It did not bother me at the time. Now that I have to work harder and spend so much time in the woods it seems almost obscenely easy.

Well that should not be a canned hunt. When I think of a canned hunt I think of something Stephen Hunter wrote about his only hunt. He is the author of 'Point of Impact' 'Blacklight' and others. It was on a 500 acre or so fenced in area. They walked around for a couple of hours and then shot aboar. To my mind that is not hunting just shooting at living targets.

Of course we are natural predators. Most of our evolution came about as a hunting animal. There is a book 'Hunting Hypothesis(?)' that goes into detail about this. I could not shoot something that wasn't afraid of me. Or maybe I should include 'and wasn't looking to eat me.'

Quite a few predators have sharp eyesight. I am quite amazed how one of our cats can detect a mole or mouse clear across the yard. I can tell what it is by how she attacks. A mole is a rapid dash and dig. A mouse involves more stalking. Now cougars and such are natural predators of deer.

And mine must include something where you don't have to work so hard, if at all, to find the animal. These are not mutually exclusive.

I think this reflect our different priorities. I am an avid reader but I rarely buy an used/old book on the internet. I get more of a sense of accomplishment finding a book I want in a used book store or at a library sale. I will use the internet to get an idea of price and availability. There is a saying I have to track down 'The hunt's the thing'. Implying that the seeking is all.

John

(snipperoo)

It's by Robert Ardrey, and came out in the late Sixties or early Seventies ; I don't know if there's been a second edition.

- RR Neuswanger, PhD, NRA, etc. karhunhammas (at) earthlink.net For longer than most people reading this have been alive, the NRA has been trying to be 'reasonable' without completely abrogating the Second Amendment. And its detractors have kept moving the goal.

Good points, both. I have been on hunts that I came back from empty handed, but the experience was priceless. Outdoors using my senses as best I can!

YES, CANNED HUNT. Walk, if you are able. (hunt) YES, CANNED HUNT. Walk, if you are able. (hunt) YES, CANNED HUNT. Walk, if you are able. (hunt) DEFINE BAIT, BUT YES, CANNED HUNT. YES, CANNED HUNT, EXCEPT FERAL ANIMALS When you actually 'hunt' for the animal, hence the name... Hunting.

You obviously like to judge without knowing what you're talking about. The only cover to 'creep' in was 15' tall sage brush.

I noticed you choose to ignore this line....

The ranch made money - so what? Granted that it's not how I do things, but it still doesn't make it unfair.

feed

Obviously someone who's never chased girls. The CATCHING is a lot more fun.

Wrong. None of that 'obviously like to judge without knowing what you're talking about' going on here. I have shot my share of prongs and desert mulies. I know hunters who have crawled hundreds of yards, through15' tall sage brush, to shoot pronghorn. I read about guys doing the same, with a bow. Granted, out west there are vast expanses of flat open country with no other means to get to prongs without a vehicle. And a 500 yard shot is challenging. Been there done that, mounted it, hung it. I have walked several miles to get to it, to shoot it. My cattle have a range of about two hundred acres. Wake up. And lose the smartmouthed ego. Do you talk to people face to face like this?

Sounds like sport. Looks like sport. Is it sport, sport? Makes BIG money, like the YO. But is it hunting? I wouldn't do it that way either. What are you talking about? Yes, I'm ignorant of what you are talking about.

No shit. Really? Are you sure? Part of hunting is scouting the area and learning the local animal's habits. Oh, but I forgot, you are the moderator, you are the expert here (or holier than thou). I have four feeders on my own place, here in South Texas, and you are correct, it took several seasons to choose placement. But I do not sit in a blind 20 yards from them and wait. Maybe, when I get too old to still-hunt, I might. My father prefers to hunt this way. But I don't pass judgment, I just don't like to hunt that way. Feels too much like that embarressing rich-boy hunt I went along on. No one said anything about 'unethical'.

I'm a rancher, I understand grazing ratios. Boy, you are some kinda rude smartass. Someone asked about canned hunting, I spoke my piece, and you jumped my shit.

No one said anything about 'unethical'.

Fair enough, as I said pest species don't fit into the canned hunt scenario. Sounds as if a culling was in order, my apologies. Around here there are maybe a dozen jacks to a 15 acre tract, the coyotes love 'em. And I've shot my share of 'em, but I don't anymore, needless killing.

To me hunting is more like getting food, the hard way. I raise beef cattle but I rarely eat beef. Venison is a great replacement. Healthier, tastier. But, don't get me wrong, I love a good steak now and then.