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Posted 7 Months, 2 Weeks ago
cameraboy
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Doesn't that statement make you mad!!! Is this a statement from an anti-hunting group?? NO!! It is the policies of a very pro-hunting group that has made areas of this country more and more difficult for those of us that are hunting using a rifle.

This is the opinion of the National and State Bowhunting Associations and 'traditional' archery hunters. Their opinion is that anything not using a bow and not getting in close is unethical (however this opinion changes when applied to X-bows). The main area to 'moniter' this misrepresentation is BOWSITE.com. As you read the threads on national, state, community conferences you will see that the Archery Hunting Community in your state has co-opted your DNR or W&P department by befriending and influencing the agency personnel and altering the press. Think it can't happen?? It is and has happened in Kansas. Most of the scientific and regulatory issues are defined by the bowhunting community. They are highly organized and show up at public meetings en force to give the appearance of a majority. The rallying cry for this group 'we are more 'in tune' with what is going on in the field than rifle hunters' They are the self-appointed guardians of the deer resource which is next to religious zealotry. If you don't believe me, don't flame me,......JUST GO LOOK FOR YOURSELF AND SEE. If you want Kansas facts and the patterns of influence to look for get in contact with me.

I am a hunter and a member of NRA and environmental scientist. I have no inclinations to be anti-bowhunting, I am seeking to end Anti- anything in hunting and get the issues back on sound scientific setting and equity in the voice and management of deer by the stakeholders. I also know that this is a minority in the bowhunting community and the vast number of archery hunters oppose this sentiment, but the misrepresentation must stop.
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Posted 7 Months, 2 Weeks ago
freespeachbaby
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AMEN!!

I've been on the Bowsite site in an ongoing 'Great Crossbow Debate' which the site owner NOW pulls with regularity. Basically they don't want the folks there to know the truth on crossbows and crossbow hunters. When I first went over there crossbow bashing was a full time 'sport'. Even the site owner, in a column entitled 'Here Come the Crossbows' bashed the crossbow and any lazy slob that was willing to pick one up. The lies and mis-information were something to behold. They looked like they had taken a page right out of the Animal Rights Activist's playbook. They constantly denigate other hunters and their choice of hunting tool. Most of what I saw was directed at the crossbows, but that was what I was most interested in. Crossbowers were called slobs, poachers, pimps , carpetbaggers, whores, lazy, bums, little girls, pansies, crooks, not dedicated, un-ethical and a bunch more that I can not repeat here.

Several people who shoot and hunt with crossbows finally had it with these folks and launched a counter attack with the truth about crossbows. After the smoke cleared the site owners and his editors now pull the crossbow threads real quick to keep the discussion down about them. threads. Not near as much authorized crossbow bashing on there as before.

I can tell you that for the most part these folks are a self appointed and annointed elitists minority. There are some very good folks there, but the site is held hostage by a vocal minority that shout down every attempt to debate the issues. The good folks usuallly keep quiet as they have been beat down before.That same vocal minority is the ones that show up at 'public meetings'. Some day the people in charge are going to figure out that these folks are a 'minority' with an self serving agenda and they will get their wings clipped.

I've tried to impress on the vocal minority bowhunters that they really are a minority and some day the gun hunters and other hunters are going to get sick and tired of their 'better than thou' attitude, the taking of prime time hunting, first crack at the deer and part or all of the rut and shove that elitism where the sun doesn't shine.

Basically they don't want anyone in 'their deer woods', in 'their season', killing 'their deer'.

Me? I couldn't care less what the fellow over on the next forty is hunting with. He hunts for himself and I hunt for myself.

It matters not what hunting tool is in a true hunters hands. It's what's in their hearts that counts.

'We have met the enemy and he is us' - Pogo Possum

WW

me,......JUST GO LOOK
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Posted 7 Months, 2 Weeks ago
brian.c
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Did you read this quarter's edition of Bugle? All about strings and sneakin. One article bashed rifle hunters...but apologized later in the article. I got my renewal notice and decided to shred it. Get along or get out of my way!

BTW...I hunt with a rifle during rifle season and I hunt with a bow during bow season. Does this make me a trator? A switch hitter? LOL
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Posted 7 Months, 2 Weeks ago
johnholland
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Steve, I am an avid archer and shoot regularly with many others of the same passion. I can honestly say (what would it benefit me to *dishonestly say*? ) that I do not know a single archer who is opposed to guns; in fact, I would guess that, like myself, many, if not most, of the archers with whom I rub shoulders carry handguns for personal protection. Most are die-hard patriots as well. As a boy growing up with a policeman as a father, I learned early the need to respect and properly use handguns, and I have no problem whatsoever with gun hunting, though it's not my preferred method.

When it comes to the issue of gun hunting VS. bowhunting (it seems sad that it should be described that way, doesn't it?) I would imagine that the basic complaint is this: Bowhunters generally aim to get as close to their game as possible in order to get as good a shot as is feasible. The real contest is in getting *close* to the game. And, because of the intimate nature of bowhunting, *most* archers practice frequently in and out of season. Too many times we hear stories of gun hunters bragging about how *far* the shot was that got their deer. I think that leaves some wondering about the nature of *hunting* in those situations.

Twice, I have been in Pennsylvania during the opening week of their buck season (gun). Watching my Brother-in-law's friends getting ready to 'hunt' is quite amazing. The rigor is something like this: On the Sunday before the hunt, they pull out their rifles that have been sitting in the closet since the close of the last season, and pull out what's left of their ammo. If they have enough, they go to a large field behind a barn and set up a target *'round* a hundred yards. They shoot 3 shots. If the three shots are close 'nough, then they are ready for hunting season. Opening day, they tend to climb into the same stand they have used for the last 10 years without doing any scouting. To me, it seems somewhat lazy and careless.

It probably doesn't help that many of the *dumb hunter* stories that make their way around the circuit every year usually revolve around people shooting guns from cars, at night or in other precarious situations that only convolute the issue for the majority who do things correctly. We own some land in Southern KY. After we closed on the property a few years ago, I spent a day hiking through the rougher areas. As I followed a spring down the west side of the property, I happened across a half-dozen or so deer carcasses that had been poached recently (this was in mid-summer). My dad and I identified bullet entrance/exit wounds in all but one. I did not automatically think 'those darned gun hunters!' I did imagine what I would like to do to the poachers if I ever got my hands on them. Unfortunately, like much of our society, some bowhunters probably blame the weapon instead of the person using it.

Now to be fair, I don't think that the vast majority of gun hunters hunt this way, so I don't think that the image is accurate. Likewise, I know a couple of bowhunters who utilize the same process with their bows each season, pulling them out in late September to see if they are ready for an October 1st hunt (of course, these are also the ones who *demand* that pro-shop owners change their strings and cables right away if they are not in good condition after sitting idle for nine months!).

The fact is, that poor/unethical hunters can spoil the sport, not just for the anti's, but even for fellow hunters. The more we can educate and hold other hunters accountable, the less this will be an issue. And for what it's worth, if you get a chance, look through the bowhunting websites and you will probably find that there is more friction between *traditional* archers and *modern* archers than between bow and gun hunters or even bow and crossbow hunters. As has often been stated, we probably spend more time and energy fighting those who most closely resemble ourselves instead of those who want to do away with hunting altogether.
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Posted 7 Months, 1 Week ago
Bgretsaste
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Alan,

Some folks think you need to be in love and married to your hunting tool. Some of us are like that and some of us just want to go hunting with whichever hunting tool is handy and legal at that time of the year.
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Posted 7 Months, 1 Week ago
scottie
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Hi Guys:

This is utter nonsense. Don't believe everything you read here. I am a archer, have been for 30+ years. Most of my friends are archers. NONE us know a thing about this crap! Each and everyone of us knows, all hunters must stay united if any of us is going to be allowed to hunt in the future.

Any disagreement on this?

Richard
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Posted 7 Months, 1 Week ago
MYLOVE_795
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AP,

I appreciate your point; HOWEVER...

There are some of us who truly enjoy the old fashioned method of hunting, meaning carrying around our powderhorns and stalking our prey as our ancestors did 200 years ago and blackpowder season is the ONLY time we can enjoy old-fashioned hunting.

The vast majority don't blackpowder for the obvious reason: it's way too much work to operate/maintain/clean the old fashioned smokepoles of old, which allows old-fashioned hunting to exist.

I am not against in-lines, however, it allows modern firearms to cross over into the old-fashioned hunting season and it's going to impact the way we hunt (many more idiot hunters in the woods).

I love my old Winchester 30.06 as much as my old Pennsylvania smokepole, but they are two different types of hunting for me (blind vs. stalking) and if the new inlines are deployed during blackpowder season, MY OPINION is, it's going to end the old fashioned style of hunting that many of us enjoy.

I hope you appreciate my point of view as I of yours.
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Posted 7 Months, 1 Week ago
sail4evr
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There are in-line muzzle loaders on record that were used in the Tower of London in the mid 1700s. Is that 'old fashioned' enough?

The in-line muzzle loader was pattented in the US of A in 1850.Is that 'old fashioned' enough?

The Evansville Indiana Museum has an in-line on display that was built in 1870. Is that 'old fashioned' enough?

Someone else said on here that they they are hunters and they will use hunting tools no matter what they are. We do NOT have to fall in love with the mystique of muzzle loading in order to hunt with them. If some do that is fine, but to cast that belief on others is not right.

The ONLY reason that there will be more 'idiots' in the woods is that there could be more people in the woods. I'm sure if someone did a study there would be XX % of idiots in the general populace. But, that's not what I read from your post. It seesm to me that you believe that a large percenatge of folks who opt to hunt with an in-line will be 'idiots'. Assigning that is kin to being prejudice against a group of people that hunt with a different hunting tool than you do.

I've seen a LOT of that over on bowsite against the crossbow hutners. The 'real bowhunters' seem to think that only 'idiots' pick up a crossbow.

As far as 'modern firearms to cross over.' see above.

BTW - I haven't seen too many 'roll your own' 'old fashioned smokeploles'muzzle loaders in the woods. Most are replicas made with MODERN materials.

Contrary to what you have posted and what in-line manufacturers claim, I really cant see a comparison in an in-line and a 30.06. The two different huntung metods (stalking and blind) can be done with ANY type of hunting tool.

Sure. We all have opinions, but we need to stick to facts.
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Posted 7 Months, 1 Week ago
brettmeister
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I don't think so.

I think the point is that among bowhunters (& muzzleloaders), there is a very vocal *minority* who espouse the 'we're better than you' bullcrapola. The problem is that they are the ones that tend to get elected to the boards of organizations and publish magazines.

It is this minority to which we are outraged, not the bowhunting & muzzleloading community at large.
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Posted 7 Months, 1 Week ago
Math_astronomer
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I would be more than happy to 'appreciate your point of view' under 2 conditions:

1) it is not presented in a 'holier than thou' attitude. Yet among those who are bowhunt or muzzlehunt *only* (ie. not crossover folks), this attitude is quite common. I don't care how defensable a person's position is, if they present it with that sort of attitude, they are not going to be appreciated.

2) Those who espouse your point of view don't ask for special privalages. Read that to mean: special seasons where they get to hunt and exclude everyone else. Yes, that means I am opposed to all bow-seasons and muzzleloader seasons - we should have a 'animal season' that is open to all people using whatever methods that individual prefers and set based solely on wildlife management principals.
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Posted 7 Months, 1 Week ago
adrewscudera
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Steve,

What I read is that you want the woods empty and to yourself. I would like to have a double shotgun only season, a lever rifle season, a bolt action season. Forget pump rifles, I don't own one.

Your argument reminds me of traditional archery vs wheel and cable vs crossbow. If you want privacy my feeling is you should go lease a piece of property that you can control access to.
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