Opinion on .444 and .45/70 Calibre .

When dealing with lever actions with tubular mags, you really have to go with the big bores for moose,, although years past Winchester did offer a tubular mag lever in 30/06.

Of course you can get a Browning lever in 308, and maybe even still in 358 Win.

Both the 444 and the 45/70 will down a moose cleanly at under a 100 yds, the 45/70 probably do it at 400 yds with a heavy bullet, but you have to lob the bullet up and over to hit it. Shots out to 200 yds are not that bad with it, especially with a target as big as a moose, we regular shoot our 45/70's at 200 and 300 yds at the range, but we do know the exact ranges, and where to sight for each,, they do make a tang site for the 45/70, and with a laser range finder , and enough practice you can take a moose at exstended ranges

Trevor, After adding an Lyman aperture rear sight and a Brockman post front to my .45/70 Marlin 1895G Guide Gun getting hits from field positions on game size targets out to 100 yards is no trouble at all with factory 300 and 405 grain ammunition. I have not done any work with higher velocity handloads or at

an issue past 125 yards or so. I shot my deer at 20 yards with it this year, so trajectory was not an issue. The .444 is less common that the .45/70 these days and there is not such a wide variety of factory and semi-custom ammunition available for it. The .444 is running at full throttle in factory loads, but the .45/70 will benefit greatly from handloading. Published reports suggest 1700 fps with a 400 grain bullet is easily attainable even in the ported 18.5 inch barrel of the Guide Gun. I look forward to trying such loads myself. I like the Guide Gun; I think everyone should have one. Good hunting! Michael

If you are going to shoot factory ammo, the .444 is the best choice by far. The factory 45-70 is normally downloaded to be fired in the old breach loaders and are satisfactory for deer or black bear out to 200 yards.

However, if you handload, and choose a modern rifle such as a Marlin 1895, you can greatly improve the load to where the 45-70 would be a much better choice. A good handload will easily shoot 200 yards to drop a moose.

You're right about the 30-30 being puny for moose. I'd say the 45-70 is your best choice, particularly in a modern lever gun that can handle the heavier loadings. There is plenty of off the shelf ammo that will throw 300 or 400 grain premium bullets downrange at 1800 fps or more.

Still, the 45-70 (and, for that matter, the other two rounds) isn't a long range cartridge. The ballistics show you that going much beyond 150 yards the drop is considerable.

The Marlin and Winchester both offer compact, light-weight lever guns in 45-70, some with porting to keep the recoil at a very comfortable level. I've got an 1895G Guide Gun and it's a real pleasure to shoot, even with the 18 inch barrel and just over 6 pound weight. Easy to carry in the field too.

If you are serious about moose and expect to be shooting at longer ranges, I'd suggest going a more traditional route with a bolt action in one of the magnum calibers like .338 or 300 WM.

Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (ret) *** Ziff-Davis Interactive *** (http://www.zdnet.com)

.45/70 ALL THE WAY, ARE DEAD NUTS ACCURATE AT 100YRDS. AND HAVE A WIDE VARIETY OF LOADS

I have about 20 years experience with both oft these rounds in the Marlin lever guns.

The big question is 'are you handloading?'. If not, I would suggest the 45-70, as the Remington 405 gr. factory, though slow, will do the job. Hits past 150 yards become tough even on moose, since it is easy to underestimate distance across water,and most of my moose have been taken across or along water.

If you are handloading the .444 becomes a real bone crusher. The only factory load is the Remington 240 gr., since the 265 has been dropped. If handloaded with a 300 gr. slug up to about 2100 it will do all you want. Hits to 200 yards are easy, as it will be about 6' low from a 150 zero. Will be about 14' down at 250, but because of the sectional density, will still penetrate nicely.

The 45-70 with a heavy slug like the Speer 400 pushed to 1900 fps, will give more foot pounds of energy, but doesn't shoot as flat, nor penetrate as well. These are findings from the field, not 'saw it in a book' facts. The best easy to find bullet for the 45-70 is the Hornady 350 Gr. as it hold together better than the Speer, in my experience.

One last thing to consider, Marlin and Hornady are going to introduce a new rifle/cartridge at the Shot Show, the .450 Marlin, based I belive on the .458X2', a round which works well in Marlin lever guns by the way.

Best of luck in making your choice,

Hi Trevor

You need to visit a good gun shop. There are plenty of high (relatively) velocity loads available for modern 45-70 rifles such as the Winchester and Marlin. Just check the box and note whether there is the phrase 'for use in all rifles' which indicates the older, 1200 fps loadings or the modern loads which will get you up around 1800 fps.

You are correct that handloads can get even more performance with velocities rising to the 2000 fps level.

Still, you're pushing a large bore, heavy-weight projectile and the ballistic drop is significant after 100-150 yards.

Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (ret) *** Ziff-Davis Interactive *** (http://www.zdnet.com)