Imbalance in Kasas Hunting

The only 'study' you can really hang your hat on is the Camp Ripley study.

Go to the www.nbef.com website and read it over real well how it was donw. I question the methodlogy of the others.

WW

PS. I think you could/should have left this 'wounding rate' one off.

The NBEF link is for a domain seller now. I would like to see the link. I have been looking at the quotes from the Camp Ripley Study. I talked with Ms. Kruger's replacement (she did the study) and they don't give out copies anymore. Not because of the quality of the research, but because the groups take the 'best numbers' to support their cause. True, I agree this wounding data is ammo for the 'anti's', BUT, archery hunters must look at the wounding issue within 'ehtical hunters' claims. THAT was why I put it in. The claims of 87% recovery for archery is not true, in actuality by the Camp Ripley Study (I read all 118 pages) single archers retrieve less than 40 % and with two hunters it is 75% by the Ripley information. But rabid archers still cling to the '87%'. it's the best number but includes the researchers search parties. BTW, the other studies had a larger recovery rate in approx. the same percentages, even though they were done with 'survey' and not actual observation. I thank you for your input. If you could please re-read my post and give me some input on how to say these things better and how to help us all

Here is the 'net version'

All those season dates are true, However if read the WHOLE post you will see that ALL the states you mention have RIFLE SEANSON in the RUT. Kansas is the ONLY State in the Midwest that the Rifle season is NOT IN THE RUT. GO back and read the original message.

Additionally, the Archery tag is the only one that has STATEWIDE ANYDEER with no exceptions. Again, read the post. Even the muzzel loaders in Kansas are limited to a Mule deer draw and ther are only about 5,000 hunters in this group. Kansas is a very Pro-Bowhunting state. This is disporpotionate with the level of participation and contribution ($) of the largest stakeholder.

Easy for you to say. But that is the point, why do all the other states allow rifle season during the RUT??? I already have those season dates. That was stage 1. However if you look at the current season for rifle season(s). You didn't read part of the post

The Kansas 2002 deer hunting regulations have a 12-day rifle season and a 12-day white-tail antlerless season. The result of this is a 24-day season with a buck Rifle season 12 days and a doe rifle season 12 days. The rifle hunter may end up taking disproportionate bucks by waiting to take a doe in the later season and then not participating in the later season. This will most likely increase the deer population.1) Buck rifle season. That is the reason that KDWP says is why they do not let rifle hunters in the rut, they want more does taken. (The reason before that was it would ruin the age structure, in an exponential growth population, yeah B.S.) How much you want to bet the Rifle take goes from an even 50/50 split to 60/40 buck/doe or worse? I got a franklin on it. and it will raise the population radically.

YOU need to check your facts and not believe what people say.

Well, unless I missed something during Biology, the rut GENERALLY happens at a certain time, but not ALWAYS. There are many, many factors that control the rut. Temperature, moon cycle, feed, etc.

I can tell you that last year, the firearms season and rut happened at the same time. At least where I was in KS, it seemed to be the peak of the rut on opening day. I saw more bucks in 2 days than I've seen in the last 5 years. So, if KS had set up firearms season during what was 'supposed' to be the rut last year, you'd have missed it.

Also, have you hunted in Missouri, or eastern Oklahoma? Visibility is about 25-50 yards in lots of places. You don't have the wide open spaces like you do in KS, with those nice feed plots (otherwise known as wheat fields) for the deer.

You might want to think that one over a bit. I'm not biased, but I will be bow hunting for the first year this year. Not because of the season, but because of the location. It's the only safe method to hunt in my backyard - literally.

That's because the effective range of a bow is about 60 yards MAX. Realistic range is 20-30 yards. That means the deer has to be within 90 FEET of you. Don't know about you, but when I rifle hunt, anything within 250 yards is mine. That's about 10 times the distance. I don't have to worry much about scent when rifle hunting - I do bow hunting. What's that mean? Not as many tags get filled - and those that do are as likely to be does as bucks, and the bucks aren't the 'monsters'. They're the young, dumb ones - generally.

What do you think would happen to the hunting if UNLIMITED STATEWIDE ANYDEER permits were handed out to rifle hunters? Not too many bucks left for breeding next season. That's another reason for generally leaving the firearms season AFTER the rut. Breeding has generally already occurred, so the population goes on and hopefully the good genes get passed.

I mentioned trying to get a permit 25 years ago. Did you ever try to get a KS permit 25-30 years ago? You couldn't. There were so few deer, that very few permits were handed out, and there were a few years you couldn't hunt whitetail. Why? No deer to speak of. It's about like trying to get an antelope permit now. How many of those are handed out each year? 75 - total - for a 3 day firearm season. Now we have deer, but only because it's been managed. I will admit that the population has gotten a bit out of hand the last couple of years, but last year was a complete bust for hunters who have gotten a deer every year I've known them. I believe there's been too much poaching going on the last couple of years.

The name of the game is management. If you disagree with the way the management is being handled - then you have an opportunity to speak up at the annual meetings (held in Feb/Mar) - which effect the policies put in place for that year's season.

Then KDWP's management policy for the past 8 years has been to achieve almost exponential growth AND 'managed' to increase DRVA and 'managed' to have DRVA exceed KDWP interior PUBLIC SAFETY POLICY of 400 DRVA/billion miles since 1995. So, that's your idea of management. Now the KDWP has in the opinion of the KBA let out too many permits and the herd is decimated in the last 2 years. If the management is so good how did it go from exponential growth phase to decimated??? Look at the last Public Meeting Minutes, The KDWP DOES NOT KNOW HOW MANY DEER ARE IN THE STATE AND THE ESTIMATE IS SERIOUSLY FLAWED, it's in the minutes. So get your facts straight, most of our world's extend a little further than our computer screen and our own backyard. Great place for limiting perspective..

The Colorado rifle deer (and archery) seasons are pretty much over by the