east vs west antler counting

Do you see what I mean? I first posted this question to the group over two months ago. There has be a couple dozen responses and not one is in agreement with the others. It is not that big a deal really, just some interesting discussions. I did find the one comment interesting about how he thought the western method better described the character of the rack.I am still confused on whether the brow tines are considered points. I believe for record bood purposes they are, at least for Couumbia blacktails. When elk are harvested east of the Mississippi, are you hunters going to call a 6x6 bull a 12 pt?

That's us hunters for you. Independent sobs. Everybody in this country could get along just fine with a 30-06, but suggest dropping the rest and see what happens.

My comment: In my area, not usually. However, I'm talking mulies here. I've never seen a whitetail here in southern Idaho although I've heard some are migrating in. You need input from western whitetail hunters about counting brow tines. I'm guessing, but maybe it's because mulies have so much larger racks than whitetails that those little brows tend to be ignored. On elk the brows are definitely counted but they tend to be much larger in relation to the rest of the rack. I saw a 5 pt last fall with brows extendng beyond his nose. Impressive!

Interesting. Points are points. Here in Kansas, we count the points collectively as a rule on whitetails. 8 Pointer, 10 pointer..ect. I think everyone counts muleys and elk the same way....4x4, 5x5 ect... As for the whitetails, it also depends on the person. Some like to count every little bitty appendage no matter the length. This of course for many isfor bosting purposes later. Many others will provide a much more acurate description of the head gear by saying for example the deer was a basic 8 pointer with 3 sticker points at the bases. Me? Well I prefer to refer to my better bucks as members of the bullwinkle family tree. Smaller than these would be in the bambi class.

. Smaller than these would be in the bambi class. Didn't you ever watch Walt Disney? When ol' Bambi grew up, he was a pretty fair wallhanger.

i would we havent forgot how to count yet i guess....lol only kidding ...your right it is an interesting debate ....there seem to be so many methods of counting points that you can be sure this debate will be going on forever.

As someone born in Ohio where I learned the outdoors, but never hunted... Then lived in NJ for 30 years where I married into a hunting family, and started my hunting habits... and now living in Colorado, I call everything by the number of points on each side. So if it's got 4 points on each antler, it's a 4x4, not a 4 pointer (western count) nor a 8 pointer (eastern count). I find that everyone understands a 4x4, unless they think I'm talking about a vehicle or a piece of lumber.

samg

Well, it seems obvious that we here in the East were counting points first, so our way is the right way. And when we start shooting elk here in Maine we'll count 'em the same dam' way!

there is a large portion of NY state open to rifles....all of the northern zone and some areas of the southern tier. the more populated areas are restricted to shotgun,muzzleloader,handgun,bow.........some areas are bow only. there are alot of hunting options here but you have to be willing to travel.

Westerners don't call them 4 X 4... they call them 4 by 4 !

It is really only deer that we have this problem with. And truly only whitetail deer because the eastern half of the US only has whitetail. Anyone counting a Coues, Blacktail or Muley by total points is an easterner hunting out west and carries along the counting system of the east. If you notice, eastern hunters that have hunted out west and bagged an elk still refer to it as a 5 by 5 because the east doesn't have elk hunting like the west and the counting/designation of points is learn from westerners while on the hunt, or in magazines. And nobody really fights over the description of a moose, caribou or antelope.

When B&C and P&Y really got going, whitetail hunters interested in trophies and scoring started counting all points because that's the way the B&C and P&Y score. Any point over an inch is counted. Also, eastern hunters hunt more in groups, large parties of hunters, for a fast paced 9 day season on a small acreage of land they probably bowhunt intensely also. Returning each day, or mid-day to the cabin, to exchange stories and quaff ale. With the need to make ones buck sound larger than life, all points are counted to make a huge number and create a picture of a trophy buck out of a basket rack in the other hunters minds.

Since whitetail population is high in most states, it reasons whitetails would have the highest number of irregular racks. Describing a non-typical 48 point whitetail as a 28 x 20 whitetail would be weird, but would be helpful in my opinion to understand the layout of the rack, but you typically don't see it labeled as such.

And since I hunt in Wisconsin, do as the Wisconsinites do. I shoot an 8 pointer last fall. Brow-tines included. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Ed

i dont know what part of the east you are talking about. our northern zone deer season is from sept.27 till the 1st sunday in Dec......we eat lunch and then go hunting again...we like to drink beer when we are done for the day. any deer with one antler 3 inches long is legal and will be taken..... we tend to brag about how close we can get to a deer when still hunting. is that ok?