drams equiv conversion to fps?

does anybody know how to convert drams equivalent to feet per second? i've seen the remington dale earnhardt, jr. 'hi-speed 8's' are listed at 1390 fps.

i'm also looking for a 12 ga. recipe to reload a similar load of 1 oz. shot, but the top speed i'm seeing in all the recipes online is only 1290...

thanks,

Drams do not convert to fps. One is a measure of weight (for black powder) and the other of speed. The drams equivalent on a shot shell box indicates theat the load with smokeless powder is equivalent to the black powder load (for example 3 drams)

Dr. Eq. does not directly equate to fps. What it tells you is the equivilant charcge of black powder it would take to achieve the velocity attained by a given load. Example: you see a box of shells marked as '1 1/8 oz, 3 1/4 Dr. Eq.' this means it would take 3 1/4 drams of black powder to propell 1 1/8 ounces of shot to approximate velocity these shells are loaded to. A 1 oz load at 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. would achieve a higher velocity then a 1 1/8 oz load at 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. The system is highly outdated and eventually stop useing it and list the approximate velocity on all shotshell ammo.

Dram equivlent refers to the powder charge...so if you would convert drams to anything, it should be grains of powder.

Even that conversion (drams to grs) would be tricky. A dram is a volumetric unit of measurement, used from the time when blackpowder was used to load cartridges. The grain, on the other hand, is a mass (weight) unit of measurement. The different densities of the powders would require a specific formula, to convert each one of them. But only to have the variations from lot to lot make it useless, the next time buy powder that's not from the same lot. It is like converting litters into pounds. One litter of water won't weight the same as one litter of lead, and so on.

Old traditions die hard, that's the only reason we still see dram equivalents on our shotshell boxes. If you buy European shotshells, you'll have a harder time finding any reference to dram on their boxes.

'hi-speed 8's' are listed at 1390 fps.

i'm also looking for a 12 ga. recipe to reload a similar load of 1 oz. shot, but the top speed i'm seeing in all the recipes online is only 1290...

thanks, eddie

If you use hodgdon Longshot powder,

AA Hulls, Winchester 209 primer, WAA12 wads, 1 1/8 oz loads produce

32.1 grains= 1420 FPS, 9200 psi

33.2 grains= 1475 fps, 10,10,100 psi

34.4 grain= 1530 Fps 11,10,100 psi I have use this load and WOW it is fast !

I haven't shot this one, but it is in the book if you use Remington R12L wads, with 37.1 grains, you get up to 1585 FPS at 11,000 psi

In the Hodgdon book, there are no 1 OZ longshot loads

Chris C-Sports Optical

DON'T DO THIS!

One dram is 1/16 ounce. One ounce is 437.5 grains. Three drams, then, is 82.03125 grains

Wrong. The dram involved here is not the fluid dram. It is the avoirdupois dram, equal to 1/16 of an avoirdupois ounce, or 27 11/32 grains troy exactly, or about 1.772 grams. (This, of course, is pretty convincing evidence that the grain is not really a part of the avoirdupois system; it's just that back in the time of Henry VIII, the independent standards for the avoirdupois units were abandoned, and the avoirdupois pound was defined as an exact fraction of the troy standard; today, it is an exact fraction of a different mass standard, the kilogram.)

Of course, there was also another dram in the past; the apothecaries dram is 1/8 of a apothecaries ounce (the same as the troy ounce, but with different subdivisions between the ounces and the grains, both of which are the same), or 60 grains apothecaries = 60 grains troy = 3.8879346 g.

An avoirdupois dram is 1/256 avoirdupois pound, and an apothecaries dram is 1/96 apothecaries pound.

Gene Nygaard http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Gene_Nygaard/ t_jeff.htm But if it be thought that, either now, or at any future time, the citizens of the United States may be induced to undertake a thorough reformation of their whole system of measures, weights and coins, reducing every branch to the same decimal ratio already established in their coins, and thus bringing the calculation of the principal affairs of life within the arithmetic of every man who can multiply and divide plain numbers, greater changes will be necessary. U.S. Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, 1790

What if one loaded 000 buckshot using these size loads? Say 7 000 sized lead shot each weighing 68 grains each. Plus a little filler. That would weigh in at 1-1/8's or 1.125 ounces. That's exactly what the load data above is pushing. That would be pushing 7 '.36'/9mm caliber projectiles at 1585 fps! That's a pretty impressive load! That's roughly 379 foot pounds of energy (fpe) per projectile from the muzzle! We are talking 9MM para performance! Could you imagine what a short barreled sub-machinegun set to fire 7 round bursts can do? Then just load this hot load of 000 buckshot and find out. More control and better chance of hitting something not to mention attainable by everyone reading this post. This could certainly be reliable out to 50 yards...light clothing or not! Opinions/input?

Bet this could fit in a 2.5 inch shell too, but who really cares. Be nice to carry six rounds in my Mossbergs magazine. Nicer if I could carry six rounds in the magazine of a Norinco 97'. Sure these would kick like a mule. Though with a slam fire shotgun (ie...Norinco 97' you could send 42 projectiles down range as fast as you can rack that mother. Be nice to keep close to the back door for those pesty boogermen. Did I mention we had a breakin? Wish I could catch them in the act with ole' Betsy in my hand.

thanks, rick, that's zackly what i was lookin for. i did notice that the helpful posters kinda got off track a little...maybe my original question wasn't quite clear.

thanks to all who replied,