Dangerous Muzzleloaders?

Unsafe Muzzleloaders?

It is a sad fact that many muzzleloaders produced today with Spanish barrels are marked with a pressure rating of 700 kp/cm²

I would like to take exception to a few of the points that are being professed as fact in the above thread.

1) the markings on the barrels refer to a measurement as PSI-, If I am correct, this refers NOT to Pounds per square inch, but to the measurement of PASCAL per square inch. So begins the unraveling of fact in this thread

2) I have also done some research into the Spanish markings on the barrels.

The marks stamped on Spanish muzzle loaders are the MINIMUM requirements needed to leave the Spanish government proof house- Their national minimum standard. This in no way shows the maximum pressures that the barrels can withstand. The US does not have to stamp their barrels with any standard.

3) In the US today, we have become a very litigious ( law suit happy) society. Do any of us believe that a manufacturer would willingly and knowingly bring themselves into such a situation? I believe the barrels that this thread mentions have been tested in excess of the maximum loads and have been given the proper load recommendations because of thorough and scientific procedures.

4) The powder manufacturers MUST give recommendations to protect themselves!- You see there are far too many Darwin award candidates that do not read owners manuals ,operating instructions and load charts. Many too many Pseudo experts and pseudo gunsmiths alter the guns and loads and then want to blame the manufactures. There are a few individuals that will TRY to load MAGNUM loads into a non magnum gun. The 100 grain load is the max on Most standard guns, However muzzle loader classified as magnums may handle higher loads. BECAUSE THE GUN MANUFACTURERS HAVE TESTED THEM!

5) There has been made reference to Ford motor companies Pintos, Firestone tires, Remington Rifles and 'Sixty Minutes'.

Fords did Explode.

Firestones Did Blowout.

The space shuttle did explode.

Remington's did misfire after being adjusted by non certified gunsmiths.

Did Sixty minutes cover the point, 'That most of the triggers were self adjusted?

However: If these Spanish made guns are so dangerous, where are the piles of maimed bodies which resulted from gun failures? If these guns are not killing their owners by sending red hot pieces of shrapnel tearing through their skulls, then there must be long lines of walking wounded waiting to sue the companies that sell these products. Funny, I don''t remember hearing of the vast numbers of dead and injured.

6) The internet is a wonderful place for anyone to express their opinion as fact without the benefit of knowledge or proof.

7) The misinformation on the internet is limited only by the imagination of the person telling the lie. The honest person or company is limited by the truth. These people can always just crank up the level of their imagination in response to the truth. This makes debate on the internet a loser for the honest folks.

8) Including the very cheaply made imports from Asia, when was the last time anyone heard of an honest case of catastrophic firearm failure in a muzzle loader that did not involve smokeless powder, a known reckless act by the shooter or a mistake in loading such as short starting a projectile. An honest gun failure resulting from recommend loads with normal projectiles properly loaded is virtually unknown in muzzle loaders regardless of country or origin, brand of firearm or selling price.

Please understand I am not trying to judge or discredit the original poster, no one would ever do that on the internet. But this thread seems to be inline with the standards of the one recently resigned NY reporter for using fiction as fact and the College professor from Atlanta that tried to use very iffy information as scientific fact to support their causes

You need to be sure of your facts before going on a long post of unsure guesses. To use the argument where are the bodies, is a totally irresponsible argument. The reason for safety margins is not for lawyers solely, but for general safety precautions for various guns, in varying conditions. The {I believe statements} reminds me of the I assume thought process.

No, my research was far more thorough than that. The markings are kiloponds/ cm2, identical to Kg/cms

beyond that would be speculation.

WE SHOULD LOOK UP NAVY ARMS (Sorry for the cap lock) Thy blew up a barrel and have some pressure info. Also an email to Knight my be useful as they offer loads of 150 grains. Look up pressure loads for the 50 -120 round I have seen them. Something like 15,000 PSI.

A 10,000 psi 'proof' still sounds a bit low though

So if I understand what the complaint is about-

'The Spanish government has a minimum standard and the US does not? '

What is the minimum PSI for a barrel made in the US? Are we ( the American Muzzle loader) now going to tell Spain, that they have to change their minimum standard, when we, the US does not have a standard?

Is it true, that no US manufacturer stamps and will publish'Proofs' of their barrels? So how do you know what pressures American MFG.'s Barrel A, B, C or Z have? What Certified Lab has performed these certified tests?

Also RW wrote While the barrel metal has not changed