Cabelas to allow sale of puppies on their premisis

Wouldn't this be a great thing for someone that was looking to get a puppy but didn't want to traipse all over the countryside checking out all the dogs available? I see this as an opportunity for someone to go to one place at one time and be able to comparison shop, so to speak, the dogs currently on the market. I'm sure the breeders will have the chance to promote the value of their dogs compared to the others there, with such things as the quality of the parents, the medical treatment they've received, any training that has been done, etc, etc.

I'd like to think that letting people talk to the various breeders side by side would make life harder for the shoddy ones and help the good ones. If someone is only interested in the price of the dog, they're going to go to a breeder that cuts costs anyway. At least this way they can see the difference and talk to people that can help them realize the true value of using a responsible breeder.

What if I wanted to make sure that the kids liked the puppy (I know, what kid doesn't like any puppy?) but I didn't want to spend many many hours going from one breeder to another only to have the kids beg and plead for a particular puppy at each and every one of them? Solution? Go to Cabela's when they have their dog days and look over a whole passle of them at one time. If you don't find one you like, you only disappoint the kids once.

I'm not saying it's all good, but I can see some real value in this. By having the dogs at a side door or someplace not where every single customer coming in and out can see them and make that impulse purchase, you would reduce that sort of thing.

We need to take your kids to a puppy mill and let them pick a pup out of a litter where the mother or some pups are dead in the cage, or pus is oozing out of her vagina from an untreated infection. Is that what you want Cableas to support. 'Sure, breed the bitch, we can always take the pups down to Cabelas and get rid of them.'

A reputable breeder spends a lot of time looking for a reason not to breed a dog. When they get a couple of exceptional animals together, the pups are sold by application only. All dog organizations oppose dogs being sold through stores or auctions. If that makes your kids unhappy,

So, just how common is this kind of breeder?

Well, OF COURSE all dog organizations will oppose dogs being sold through stores and auctions. They represent the kind of quality breeders you talk about. Their constituents are in competition with the type of breeders that would be interested in selling at stores and auctions. That may sound a bit cynical, but there's at least some truth to it.

A quality breeder, one that is highly selective about the dogs they pair up and that takes exceptional care of all the dogs involved in the process, is also going to charge a premium price for their premium product. I'm guessing you aren't going to get a dog from one of them for much less than $1000. Guess what? There are a LOT of people that can't afford that kind of money for a dog and they aren't necessarily even looking for some sort of superstar hunting dog. They just want a dog that can do a reasonable job when they go out and that will be a good family pet at the same time.

Can they get a dog like that from a lousy breeder? Probably. Will they be taking a chance that they will get a dog with some problems or less than perfect traits? Definitely.

Cabela's doesn't only sell top-of-the-line products in their store. They have off-brand products that are less than perfect and that might have problems down the road. However, they cost less and there is a market for less expensive products. Raising dogs is a business and there are always going to be businesses that have exacting standards and charge prices and ones that have minimal standards and charge minimal prices and everything in between.

I know, dogs are living animals and they deserve our respect and proper care. I have as much compassion and love for them as anyone else. People that mistreat them and that breed and raise them in poor conditions should be dealt with severely. In fact, I would venture to guess that someone in the animal protection field could go to Cabela's and look over the dogs, check their medical records, and ask the right kind of questions and they would be able to tell which breeders warranted further investigation. This could be a boon to the overworked folks that are charged with enforcing the animal protection laws.

When we got our pet cats, we went to the animal shelter and got ones that had been abandoned. Was this a bad thing? How is this different from going to a store (and believe me, the animal shelter isn't much different from a pet shop) and picking one out? The shelter knew even LESS about where our cat came from than the store would know. Nobody thinks that they should travel all over going to fish or bird or snake or <fill in the blank> breeders to check out their operation and see how the animals are being treated, etc before buying one. In fact, you could include plenty of mammals, such as cats, hamsters, gerbils, rabbits, and yes even dogs in this list. You go down to the pet store and pick one out. You hope that the store gets them from someone that treats them well, but you can't guarantee that. You pay your price and you take your chances. Generally, the more you pay the less your risk.

Why do people think that this is okay for any other animal but when you want a dog you should spend months worth of Saturdays traveling all over the state and performing inspections at the breeders (which may or may not tell you what kind of shop they run, especially since you may only be exposed to a nice clean environment and never see the real puppy mill) instead of going once or twice to a place with a big selection of dogs from which to choose? Aren't horses and all manner of livestock routinely sold at auction for this very reason? What makes dogs different from all the other animals on the planet? For crying out loud, even people buying slaves went to auctions instead of directly to the people raising them. And that's humans we're talking about.

If I'm being ignorant about this, please enlighten me. What piece of knowledge am I missing that makes dogs different?

Hunting and herding breeds aside how many 'Mutts' are killed but the county pond for each 'Pure bread' dog the is sold for a profit by a breeder. There is an extensive effort by the conservative radio station to adopt large dogs buy the humane society. In the city small dogs are adopted easily but dogs over 40 lps are harder and these are grate dogs. But how many must die for a small poodle or toy spaniels. Pit bulls are a different story.

How common are pet shops? Where do you think the dogs in pet stores come from?

If all you want is a pet, go to the pound.

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The difference is that at a shelter you are not lining the pockets of the lowlife scum who abandoned their animals, and you are not paying them to do it again.

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A cheap horse is butchered for food. You know exactly what it is worth just by running it across a scales. You don't go to an auction to buy a saddle horse, you go to an auction to buy Alpo.

Animals run through livestock auctions are a commodity destined to be killed either immediately, or as soon as they reach market weight. At that, livestock auctions are tightly regulated. Nobody has held a slave auction in the USA for over 130 years, and even in the old south, selling a slave down the river was a sign of greed and inhuman indifference.

You are forgetting that you are just as much on trial as the dog when you are dealing with a reputable breeder. Have you ever filled out an application for a hunting dog? The breeder will want to know why you want a dog, how much experience you have training and working a hunting dog, who your vet is, and where you plan to keep the dog. This is more than empty posturing. A breeder needs to get a picture of what kind of person you are and what kind of dog would suit you. They really will send you someplace else if they think you are not a good match with one of their pups.

Remember, you are going to have to live with that dog for the next 10 to 15 years. If you can't afford the $1000 for a quality dog, how are you going to afford the $1000 a year it costs to own one? By the time you feed it, vet it, kennel it and train it, a dog will cost you $10,000 over its lifetime. The only way you can buy a $150 dog is to buy from a puppy mill, or a back yard breeder who is too ignorant to realize how much money they are losing.

ROTFL. $1000 a year. Good one! Thanks for the laugh, I needed that. LOL

If they would do something like this I wouldn't have a problem with it: have a breeder show off once a month or whatever, bring the parents of the puppies but not sell any, this would let the people see the dogs, there temperament, and Etc. This way the shopper could narrow down a lot of the breeders. They could have there trophies, papers, and picture of litters, kennels and so forth. Have small competitions during this day of retrieving, Obedience, and etc. But not sell any puppies, just have a show off to let people decide and think about which one they like then they can go to the breeder one on one.

Well Chris and Larry...this entire posting fell on deaf ears, didn't it. I've been torn lately reading the postings here, wondering to myself exactly who is reading rec.hunting...and now I know.

I'm not excited at all being a part of this bunch...

You're right - I wouldn't have a problem with what you propose either.

Sadly, this is not what Cabelas is doing. PS: I found out Bass Pro Shops does the same thing.

Yes, I am what is referred to as an amatuer breeder. I have 1 breedable bitch, and produce 1 litter every 18 - 24 months (on average).

Definition of terms is called for here:

Professional breeder: a person who makes a living at breeding (and usually training) dogs. This term comes with an assumption of a minimum level of ethical standards, namely (must include ALL of) * the parents of litters are health certified against the genetic diseases common to the breed (eg. in Labs, this would be OFA for hips & elbows and CERF for eyes). * the parents have at least a minimum level of performance and/or conformational ability as PROVEN by performance and/or conformational titles. Note that I'm not talking about the entire pedigree here, I'm talking about the sire & dam themselves. * the puppies come with a written health guarantee * at least a minimum number of health issues are checked on the puppies prior to placement - the very minimum of this would be the 1st (and sometimes 2nd) round of shots & certification from a vet against things like cleaf palatte, heart murmors, etc. * at least a minimum amount of effort is placed into matching the puppies with potiential homes - meaning some potiential buyers are turned away.

Amateur breeder: same as a professional breeder with the only difference being that they don't make their living doing this. Aka 'Hobby breeder'.

Backyard breeder: a person who breeds dogs without a concern for the quality of pup they are producing, but frequently do so withOUT money as a motivating factor. 95% (conservatively) of the pups in a newspaper classifieds section are of this type. Animal shelters are full of pups produced from this type of 'breeder'.

Puppy mill: a person who breeds dogs solely for the purpose of making a profit, without regard to the quality of dogs they produce. Virtually 100% of pet store puppies are of this type.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes

Buzz, How can you say the 'entire posting fell on deaf ears...' ?

It appears to me that it generated a number of responses ... both disagreement and agreement ...

If you were looking for a bunch of 'sheeple' to jump on board and follow Chris' lead, I can understand your being 'torn.' However, I would be more torn, and far more concerned, if there were *not* two sides to every issue in the newsgroup ...

Crabby